The Tree Of Life

[newnature]

Hi everyone, just reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces, that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series.

Post 1 of the tree of life series

If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to human race.

[This Little Light of Mine]

Dear Newnature,
I guess I have a question or two for you, and maybe a couple comments.
First, I don't understand what you mean when you write, "Yahweh was within himself" for a number of reasons, but primarily because we know that God is omnipresent. Psalm 139 says,
" 7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you."

Adam and Eve had freedom of will before they ate of the tree. The choice to eat of it was always there.

Evil was present before man chose to sin (the Bible talks about Satan and his fallen angels, who were cast out of heaven before man was even created), it did not come about with the choice to eat of the tree of good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 says, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Evil had to exist before man, or God would have only made a "Tree of Good" there would have been no choice.
Satan will also face judgment in the end for his rebellion against God.

The Bible tells us in Romans 8, " 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." These verses actually tell us that God Himself subjected His creation to the evil decision He knew man would make. Why? It goes on to say that because of hope He did it, knowing that with our redemption, His creation will be redeemed as well.

It is true, our sin causes us a lot of trouble, but the Bible also shows us God's grace through the death and resurrection of His Son. And Romans 8 goes on to say, " 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."
Awesome, right?!

Humans are not a force to be reckoned with, at least not for God... the Creator of the Universe! It is His grace and mercy that are astounding, that He let us continue on at all. That He calls to our hearts, waits patiently for us, and endures the things we do against Him and ourselves. We are not unpredictable to God, He created us, knows us inside and out, and incredibly He still loves us! Beyond that, He is sovereign. Our heart does not even beat once beyond the will of God.
God does not need to maintain an upper hand, there is no hand above His. He did not and does not need to protect Himself from us, He has no struggle with us - WE have the struggle as we decide to accept or ignore the call to defy our flesh and turn our hearts back to Him where they belong. Our flesh is our weakness, we can only overcome it by the grace, love, mercy, salvation and power of God Himself - and that is a free gift.

Eternal life comes now only by turning from our rebellion, repenting of our sins and accepting Christ as our Savior and Lord. He leads and we are to follow, we fall down and He picks us up, we make a mistake and He is ready to forgive, He teaches us what real love is.

To simply pursue immortality, to get "fire insurance" through salvation is only half the gift. There is so much more beyond the gift of life that we receive through Christ. We have an opportunity to know the One, True, Living God who desires have a relationship with us.

[newnature]

Dear Newnature,
I guess I have a question or two for you, and maybe a couple comments.
First, I don't understand what you mean when you write, "Yahweh was within himself" for a number of reasons, but primarily because we know that God is omnipresent. Psalm 139 says,
" 7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you."
Adam and Eve had freedom of will before they ate of the tree. The choice to eat of it was always there.
Evil was present before man chose to sin (the Bible talks about Satan and his fallen angels, who were cast out of heaven before man was even created), it did not come about with the choice to eat of the tree of good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 says, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Evil had to exist before man, or God would have only made a "Tree of Good."
Satan will also face judgment in the end for his rebellion against God.
The Bible tells us in Romans 8, " 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
It is true, our sin causes us a lot of trouble, but the Bible also shows us God's grace through the death and resurrection of His Son. And Romans 8 goes on to say, " 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently."
These verses actually tell us that God Himself subjected His creation to the evil decision He knew man would make. Why? It goes on to say that because of hope He did it, knowing that with our redemption, His creation will be redeemed as well."
Awesome, right?!
Humans are not a force to be reckoned with, at least not for God... Creator of the universe! It is His grace and mercy that are astounding, that He let us continue on at all. That He calls to our hearts, waits patiently for us, and endures the things we do against Him and ourselves. We are not unpredictable to God, He created us, knows us inside and out, and incredibly He still loves us! Beyond that, He is sovereign. Our heart does not even beat once beyond the will of God.
God does not need to maintain an upper hand, there is no hand above His. He did not and does not need to protect Himself from us, He has no struggle with us - WE have the struggle as we decide or ignore the call to defy our flesh and turn our hearts back to Him where they belong. Our flesh is our weakness, we can only overcome it by the grace, love, mercy, salvation and power of God Himself - and that is a free gift.
Eternal life comes now only by turning from our rebellion, repenting of our sins and accepting Christ as our Savior and Lord. He leads and we are to follow, we fall down and He picks us up, we make a mistake and He is ready to forgive, He teaches us what real love is.
To simply pursue immortality, to get "fire insurance" through salvation is only half the gift. There is so much more beyond the gift of life that we receive through Christ. We have an opportunity to know the One, True, Living God who desires have a relationship with us.

Thanks for your insights, that is good stuff your saying. It seems that life in John 5:26 is a noun instead of a verb, note how Yeshua was to have that life, seems he didn't have that life the tree of life produced when Yeshua made that statement in John; that life is cool stuff, thanks for your insights, great stuff, thanks, Rob.

[This Little Light of Mine]

I think it is super important not to pull verses out one by one without looking at them in context. John 5 says in verses 24-30, 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
When you read it in context, you see that Jesus is giving God glory for the power given Him by the Holy Spirit in His earthly body. I believe He is referring to having life to give through salvation. Does that make sense?

[shanewatson]

I want to know the exact purpose of life...I m very confuse but I hope I'll get my answer from this forum.